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| Persian scale armour/armor | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 4 2007, 01:55 AM (12,148 Views) | |
| Sean Manning | Aug 6 2008, 02:05 AM Post #81 |
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Definitely! Yeah, the arm slots should be a bit wider as well as taller (the overlap took out some width). I now see why plate breastplates have such big holes for the arms! |
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| Luciën Olinga | Aug 6 2008, 07:14 PM Post #82 |
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So far your project looks like a paper tiger.. haha.. no.. just kiddin' Looks nice.. I'm curious how you will proceed.. Greetings Luciën.. |
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| Sean Manning | Aug 7 2008, 05:33 AM Post #83 |
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It should look a lot like Matthew's armour, except it is a foot shorter and doesn't have the shoulder flaps (and the scales are smaller, and they don't have the medial ridge, and its steel not bronze, and the backing material is different ...). I'll have to experiment with how to arrange the ties on the left side ... any advice Matthew? If they found any snazzy buckles like on some Greek tube-and-yoke armours at Persepolis, I haven't seen them. |
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| Sean Manning | Jan 3 2009, 07:58 PM Post #84 |
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Eureka! I've found another picture of an armour of the cut I'm planning for. Its a seal impression from Persepolis, showing a Persian warrior killing some sort of enemy swordsman. This can go alongside some later coins, a Babylonian seal, and a carved Lydian sarcophagus from about 400 BCE. The distinctive feature is the high protector for the back of the neck which curves down to meet the shoulders. I'm thinking I'll cut the panel at the back of the neck with curved sides and quilt it to give it extra rigidity so it doesn't bend under the weight of the scales. The Lydian sarcophagus and Babylonian seal have pterges at the waist, but neither the coins nor the seal impression from Persepolis have them. That's good, because the backing cloth I'm using isn't very pretty, so pterges wouldn't look snazzy. I don't have a digital image of the seal impression from Persepolis, but here are the other three sources. Coin of Azes II of Bactria Seal from Babylonia (scroll down) Painted Sarcophagus from Lydia (scroll halfway down) |
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| Sean Manning | Feb 17 2009, 04:03 AM Post #85 |
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So I finish making a cloth mock-up of the armour backing which is almost right, and I'm ready to start making the finished version in hemp canvas. The practice version in cheap cotton is shown below. Its about hip length. The practice backing laid flat (inner layer is white, outer layer is natural) ![]() A family member was grateful that I'd put down some nice cloth to lie on, but complained that I was in his sun. ![]() The neck hole is a bit small, and the neckguard should be taller, but those are easy enough to change. Then a guy at my university makes an argument that this armour is a variant of the tube-and-yoke. That would be inconvenient if he's right, because I don't have evidence for the metal buckles/claps which a 'linothorax' requires to hold the shoulder flaps in place or the skill to cast them (even riviting some brass tacks in place like Matthew did for his linothorax would be tricky). I may put off assembling the backing until the book he based his argument on arrives, although I still think a 'vest' cut is possible. I have a last few scales to finish off meanwhile. |
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| Todd Feinman | Feb 17 2009, 04:34 PM Post #86 |
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Nice work Sean!! I'm also glad you found that seal showing the armour. It's a blast seeing your progress on your project! Todd |
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| Sean Manning | Feb 17 2009, 07:20 PM Post #87 |
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Thanks Todd! I've attacked my sketch of the armour on the seal below.
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| Matthew Amt | Feb 18 2009, 05:43 PM Post #88 |
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Good things, mockups, though I'm not so keen on cats! Hey, Sean, one of my Romans is looking for public-domain images of Persian scale armor, either original depictions or artifacts or reproductions. Any ideas? Presumably she wasn't able to Google up anything easily, though she might not know the best search terms to use. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Keep at it! Matthew |
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| Sean Manning | Feb 18 2009, 08:26 PM Post #89 |
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Gosh, let's see. Most of the photos and drawings I know are copyright by someone who isn't likely to just let you use them if you ask nicely. You could ask Johny Shumate if you can use a clip from this ... http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/john...cture48117.aspx I remember that these guys have a Persian reenactor although I disagree with some details of his interpretion. |
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| Matthew Amt | Feb 18 2009, 08:50 PM Post #90 |
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Excellent, thanks! Probably that second one is just what she needs. Much obliged! Matthew |
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| Sean Manning | Apr 26 2009, 04:54 AM Post #91 |
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Well, I'm finally done the backing, except for sewing the two layers together at the bottom. Its open at the sides for now to make it easier to handle as I stitch on scales. One side will be stitched shut after I attach the scales, and the other will be closed with ties. I just finished stitching three rows of scales to the neck-guard. Each scale on the neck-guard is attached to two rows of lacing (one at the top, one at the bottom) to make it stand erect, whereas each scale on the body will be attached with one row of lacing for flexibility. The waxed linen thread works great. I'll have photos of the backing and neck-guard the next time I can borrow a camera. Edit: Rats- I'm short 17 of the special scales for the neckguard. Oh well, I was expecting to need a few more scales at the end and I have some metal strips left over. |
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| Sean Manning | May 3 2009, 11:34 PM Post #92 |
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The neckguard is finished and I just finished the 4th row of scales on the front half of the body. I'll have photos tomorrow. |
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| Sean Manning | May 5 2009, 04:22 AM Post #93 |
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And here is a photo. The one of the whole backing is in bad resolution so it will have to wait. It rings very nicely with movement!
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| Matthew Amt | May 5 2009, 02:15 PM Post #94 |
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Yea, scales! Looks good. We'll even forgive you for using that icky ferrous alloy stuff! Matthew |
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| Todd Feinman | May 6 2009, 04:24 PM Post #95 |
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NICE! I like that scale pattern Sean. It's looking great, AND it seems like you are enjoying the project too. Todd |
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| Sean Manning | May 8 2009, 03:47 AM Post #96 |
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Definitely. Stitching is relaxing work, if not too exciting. And its going to be unique when its done. I estimate that the stitching will take 40-50 hours in all. |
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| Sean Manning | Jul 26 2009, 06:08 AM Post #97 |
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I'm done the back, and am 3 rows short of the armpits on the front. It looks like I have enough scales. Once most of the front and back are scaled, I'll attach scales to the top of the shoulders, stitch one of the side seams closed and cover it with scales, and sew the neckguard on to the neck opening. Last will be adding straps and edging. I should be done in August, just about two years after I started. There is a museum exhibit in town with assorted objects from the British Museum on display. I got to see a chunk of relief from Persepolis, a gold daric, and some Achaemenid silver bowls. There was also a bronze Corinthian helmet (with a very thick nasal!) and two bronze shields. One was oblong and Celtic, found in a British river in 1995; the other was round and Late Bronze Age, from Wales, with a concentric circle design embossed on it. Both had “too thin to use and therefore intended for display or ceremony” on the labels :(. The round one looked 1-2 mm thick, although its hard to tell without calipers. Its interesting seeing some of this stuff in person. |
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| Dan Howard | Jul 26 2009, 10:53 PM Post #98 |
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Some nasals had folded edges making them seem a lot thicker than they really are. So stop leaving the house and finish the armor! :angry: |
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| Sean Manning | Aug 30 2009, 10:44 PM Post #99 |
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Today I finished stitching on the scales except for three or four scales on the armpit of the side of the armour which is stitched shut. It fits nicely and makes a lovely sound like bells! For the top of the shoulders, I just adedd some rows of one or two scales apiece which pointed along the seam. It seems to work well. Now I just need to add straps and leather edging. I'll have photos in a few days. |
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| Gregory J. Liebau | Aug 29 2010, 09:38 PM Post #100 |
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Fearless Leader
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How's this project coming along, Sean? |
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