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AFFL ROUND SEVENTEEN LOCKOUT:
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| Collingwood and Hawthorn | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 28 2013, 12:28 PM (611 Views) | |
| boof | Dec 28 2013, 12:28 PM Post #1 |
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John Meesen
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Zac Clarke, Jed Lamb -> Hawthorn Matthew Kreuzer -> Collingwood |
| Unfinished business. | |
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| RicketyCricket | Dec 28 2013, 12:35 PM Post #2 |
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Storz Bickel
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Hawthorn confirm. Cheers Boof, at least we got something done in the end
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| Stoney | Dec 28 2013, 05:44 PM Post #3 |
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David Spriggs
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A good deal for boof?
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- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Spud Farmer | Dec 28 2013, 06:17 PM Post #4 |
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Gavin Wanganeen's Sidekick
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Now, this isn't because I have Jon griffin, but does anyone else think that he'll go back ahead of Clarke like the start of last season.. |
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| Stoney | Dec 28 2013, 06:27 PM Post #5 |
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David Spriggs
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The way i see it - it's either [Sandi OR Griffin] + Clarke. But it's interesting to note that Clarke (who averaged 96) averaged over 10 points per game less with EITHER Sandilands or Griffin in the side. Regardless of who it is, when there's a genuine number 1 ruck in the team - Clarke's probably a mid 80s player. |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| RicketyCricket | Dec 28 2013, 08:24 PM Post #6 |
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Storz Bickel
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Griffin is still in the rehab group at training, he wont come into calculations unless he dominates WAFL early. Anyway Griffin will be 28 at the start of next year, Sandi is 31 and although it's too early to make the call on him at the moment it looks like Moller will be a failure. Won't be long before Clarke is the sole ruckman. Really like Lamb aswell and reckon he'll find a spot in the Giants best 22. Also I can afford to take the risk on Clarke because i've got some pretty decent back up rucks in Nankervis and Lycett who should both see some gametime next season. |
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| Stoney | Dec 28 2013, 09:14 PM Post #7 |
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David Spriggs
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Really? I can't ever see that happening. Decent fwd/pinch hitting ruck, but I don't see him as a no.1 ruck unless injuries strike (which they did in 2013). Surely Freo would trade or sign a free agent before going into a season with Zac Clarke as their "sole" ruckman. |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Shammy | Dec 28 2013, 09:58 PM Post #8 |
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Trent Cotchin
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Clarke is a ruckman or nothing IMO. They tried him many times in the forwardline, mostly due to the fact that Chris Mayne is their second key forward but it never really worked, they look better with Sandi in the forward line IMO and he's never been too great in the forward 50. Clarke is definitely a pure ruckman, he just probably isn't the best ht out ruckman. He's similar to Ben McEvoy in that what he lacks in the hit outs he more than makes up for around the ground, al beit through his athleticism as opposed to McEvoy's sheer workrate. If anything I think they would be better off finding a player who can be a genuine key forward and also have stints in the ruck in the mould of TIppett/Roughead and I think they may have him in Apeness, he is obviously very raw and a long term prospect but with Sandi and Griffin still about they can afford to wait. In relation to the deal I think every single question mark over Clarke also applies to Kreuzer and Lamb is a decent prospect so that on it's own is enough for me to like this deal for RC. |
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| RicketyCricket | Dec 29 2013, 02:01 AM Post #9 |
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Storz Bickel
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Yeah "sole" was probably the wrong word, what I meant to say was it won't be long until he's the number 1 ruckman at Freo. You can't ever see that happening? According to champion data in 2013 he was the 5th ranked ruckman in the comp and although he needs to work on his hit outs to advantage he was the only ruck in the AFL to rate elite for disposals and kick rating. |
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| Stoney | Dec 29 2013, 08:50 AM Post #10 |
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David Spriggs
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Where did they rank him 5th overall? From what I can see he was ranked as the 17th highest total scoring ruck, and the 8th highest 'average-per-game' ruckman in 2013. Even his average-per-game rank is misleading given Naitanui, Dawson Simpson, Jon Griffen and probably a few more all averaged more until they had in game injuries/subs. That all said, the stats I find interesting are - - He didn't feature in either the AFL's top 25 hitouts, or even the top 25 hitouts per game. - His HO to advantage % was woeful, and that was on the semi-rare occasion he actually won a hitout. - Fremantle won more centre clearances from opposition ruck hitouts than they did from Zac Clarke. That's why I think he's a poor number 1 ruck option, but a great support-ruck as he has the capacity to play forward and in the ruck. IMO Freo will definitely be looking to find themselves a genuine number 1 ruckman when Sandi/Griffin retire. Just my op. |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| RicketyCricket | Dec 29 2013, 12:25 PM Post #11 |
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Storz Bickel
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Got my info from the prospectus, in his little bio thing it says "He was the fifth-ranked ruckman in the AFL". He's only 23 yo and not even close to the prime of his career so he's got plenty of time to work on his deficiencies. IMO he is capable of holding down the number 1 ruck position once Sandilands and Griffin move on. Another fun fact - When he came into the team from Round 8-23 he recorded the 3rd most Champion Data ranking points of any player at the club. |
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| Shammy | Dec 29 2013, 01:40 PM Post #12 |
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Trent Cotchin
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He also didn't have a good pre-season at all, when he played his first game for the season (I think it was in the draw against Sydney), he was miles away from peak fitness and he was still very good, not sure how his pre-season has gone this year, but if he has a good run it's not unthinkable that he will continue to improve. Having said that though Kreuzer is close to the full package, he just has too many questions over whether he will be able to consistently live up to his potential. |
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| Pinny | Dec 29 2013, 01:42 PM Post #13 |
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John Meesen
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Is Kruez dual? |
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| Shammy | Dec 29 2013, 02:10 PM Post #14 |
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Trent Cotchin
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Nope. |
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| Stoney | Dec 29 2013, 10:45 PM Post #15 |
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David Spriggs
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Kruezer living up to his potential VS Clarke repeating his only good season. I think the tribe has spoken by the multiple likes for boofs post (and no likes for RCs) |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Stoney | Dec 29 2013, 10:48 PM Post #16 |
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David Spriggs
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He might rack up an elite 13 disposals per game, but he's still not overly good at ruck work which makes me think he'd not be a preferred number 1 ruck. Yes his SC average is solid. But if that's your sole argument, CD also ranked Dawson Simpson as the 3rd best ruckman in the comp pre-injury game. And we all know Daws Simpson is obviously a top 3 ruck in the comp and all |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| RicketyCricket | Dec 29 2013, 11:24 PM Post #17 |
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Storz Bickel
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Lol your tribe consists of Spud, Terry and DiT Here's some interesting stats, http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=9&pid1=3143&tid2=4&pid2=2301&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S |
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| Stoney | Dec 29 2013, 11:35 PM Post #18 |
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David Spriggs
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Spud is a dual runner up in the GF, Terry has won a flag, and DIT is...... well, ........ you got me there. Hard to argue against the first two, they've both achieved something you or I never have, so why diss them? |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Stoney | Dec 29 2013, 11:42 PM Post #19 |
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David Spriggs
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And your link confirms that Kruezer is a better player than Clarke? Aren't you trying to justify your trade?? |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| RicketyCricket | Dec 30 2013, 02:39 AM Post #20 |
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Storz Bickel
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You said there was no stats which back up Clarke being a good ruckman, I provided stats as evidence which show that there is very little difference between him and Kreuzer. As much as I'm enjoying your enthusiasm for discussing the great Zachary Clarke you're clearly struggling now. Is this all because I declined your offer of Hill and Dawes for Kreuzer? Get over it mate. |
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