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North Melbourne + Adelaide
Topic Started: Jul 29 2011, 10:33 AM (854 Views)
Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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Shane Edwards + Taylor Hunt * + Luke Thompson * ------------> Adelaide
Andrew Mackie + Jarrad Irons * + Jack Perham * -----------------> North Melbourne
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Gavin12
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Steph Curry
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Confirmed.

Cheers D2C
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Pinny
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John Meesen
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haha u finally got rid of edwards haha...
i like the look of thompson, if its the crows one?
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Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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Yeah Adelaide one. Like him too Pinny, just like Mackie better.
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Stoney
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David Spriggs
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Edwards is horrible......... would probably be the worst kick in the afl. That said, Mackie has a fair turnover ratio happening as well. So does T Hunt - this deal probably involves the game's biggest turn over kings, D2C should have added Josh Hunt and it would've been the icing on the cake.
Stoney
 
"Winter is coming for you Wacky.

Remember that."
- 18/8/2017
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Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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I tried to Stoney ;) :P



Haha well not really, but yeah there's a lot of players in there that can certainly improve their disposal.

I just like Mackie for his durability. Without looking at stats I'd imagine he wouldn't have missed too many games over the past 5 years?? I'm also putting faith in him to return to his 2008 form where he was averaging high 80's, I could be deluded but I don't think that is unachieveable from Mackie.

Irons was promising this year for a rookie before injury struck as well. While I wouldn't bet on it, I could see him possibly overtaking T.Hunt as a player.

Edited by Deledio2Conca, Jul 29 2011, 11:04 AM.
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Stoney
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David Spriggs
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Ahhh the old 'holding out hope of him returning to an average he achieved three-four seasons ago' logic

Jason Gram and Aaron Davey called to tell you that they're 90s players too..........
Stoney
 
"Winter is coming for you Wacky.

Remember that."
- 18/8/2017
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Stoney
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David Spriggs
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Agree though Mackie is by far and away the best player in this deal though, so points to D2C for that.
Stoney
 
"Winter is coming for you Wacky.

Remember that."
- 18/8/2017
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Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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Stoney
Jul 29 2011, 11:19 AM
Ahhh the old 'holding out hope of him returning to an average he achieved three-four seasons ago' logic

Jason Gram and Aaron Davey called to tell you that they're 90s players too..........
Nah I'm not like Pinny.

Unlike Davey, Mackie's disposals per game haven't dropped by 4, so I think its more an efficiency thing.

And no where did I say he would average 90 either by the way....Mackie would have a lot better chance at returning to an average around the 87 mark than those two would eclipsing 90+ again. So can't really compare.
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Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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Also, I don't use that 'logic' just to try and be smart and prove a point.

That is actually an opinion of mine and something that I believe, and was a reason why I pulled the trigger. I didn't just say it to try and make myself look more superior or anything like some do.
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Stoney
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David Spriggs
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I never quoted you as saying he'd avg 90, I was saying it's the same logic as anyone saying Gram could return to his average of 91 in 07 or 08.

Reality is, that was 3 years ago, and considering Mackie hasnt had any injury problems which have effected his average - I struggle to see why he'll suddenly recpature his career best form?

Considering he's shown us SFA in 09, 10, and again this season - to me that suggests it was a one off decent season. All other seasons in his 7-8 year career has been average in a SC sense... just saying his 90% mediocre seasons probably outweigh his one semi-decent season.

Agree its something to hope for - but wouldn't hold my breath.
Stoney
 
"Winter is coming for you Wacky.

Remember that."
- 18/8/2017
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Pinny
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John Meesen
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davey isnt on my list? and i got corey 4 him...
so a pointless statement D2C
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Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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Pinny
Jul 29 2011, 11:32 AM
davey isnt on my list? and i got corey 4 him...
so a pointless statement D2C
Was more talking about during the pre-season you said he'd get back to averaging back up near his 96 average of a couple years back. Am happy to drag the MSN convo up if you don't believe me haha.
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Stoney
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David Spriggs
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Pinny you told me the same thing that you had faith Davey would return to his 94 avg from a few years back.

It's just a pet hate that people say "really rate [player x], reckon he'll return to his [insert average here] of [insert year here]" - despite being an ice age ago in AFL terms.

The most recent 2 seasons are are good indication - i.e. Kieran Jack averaged 100 last year, is currently averaging 83 - which is 1) injury effected by his 19 v Coll, and 2) generally a bit down. I think it's fair to say his 100-odd season was recent enough to hold out hope he could recapture that in the future.

But when we're talking 3, 4, 5 years ago, I think it's being hugely optimistic that players will return to those figures given
a) the game itself has changed dramatically, and;
b) the player's role most likely has changed somewhat since then

But here's to blind optimism - cheers.
Stoney
 
"Winter is coming for you Wacky.

Remember that."
- 18/8/2017
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Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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Stoney
Jul 29 2011, 11:31 AM
I never quoted you as saying he'd avg 90, I was saying it's the same logic as anyone saying Gram could return to his average of 91 in 07 or 08.

Reality is, that was 3 years ago, and considering Mackie hasnt had any injury problems which have effected his average - I struggle to see why he'll suddenly recpature his career best form?

Considering he's shown us SFA in 09, 10, and again this season - to me that suggests it was a one off decent season. All other seasons in his 7-8 year career has been average in a SC sense... just saying his 90% mediocre seasons probably outweigh his one semi-decent season.

Agree its something to hope for - but wouldn't hold my breath.
That's fair enough mate.

Not saying I expect it either, it's more hope or faith than anything.

Looking up his last 8 games he is averaging 88 after a slow start to the season. Don't want to open up another can of worms though so we'll just leave it at that haha.
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Stoney
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David Spriggs
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Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease............ don't even go there. Unfortunately, a season goes for 6-7 months, not 8 weeks D2C.

Remember when Cyril Rioli averaged 130+ over a 1-2 month period last year, yet he stilled finished with an average of 90s?

If we rated players based on their best 'sample' of an entire season - we could make cases for blokes like Gary Ablett to be traded as a 160+ per game player.

Reality is, the bigger sample - the better reflection of a player's true average.

Mackie has averaged 80+ once over an entire season, and that was 3 years ago.

I'm not saying it's impossible either, but it's pretty optimistic to 'have faith' he'll return to "high 80s" given his recent good form has just tipped him over 80.1........
Stoney
 
"Winter is coming for you Wacky.

Remember that."
- 18/8/2017
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Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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Righto mate, I think you've sandbagged and talked down enough of my players for one day.

You can't just take a small fact I said and then exaggerate it to the point of saying Ablett is a 160ppg player.

That is so far off what I'm trying to say it's laughable mate.

All I was trying to get across was that his past 2 months have given me some hope that he can possibly reach that mark he once did. I never said I expect him too as that is an unreasonable expectation which you no doubt 100% agree with me there.

I just wish you'd take what I said on face value, rather than taking a small piece of it and running with it and blowing it up to something that isn't even remotely close to what I am saying.
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Stoney
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David Spriggs
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Stoney
Jul 29 2011, 11:21 AM
Agree though Mackie is by far and away the best player in this deal though, so points to D2C for that.
Hardly call it sandbagging...

Consider this the straw that broke the camels back. More just a pet hate that people refer to a players average from 3, 4, 5 years ago that has no real significance in 2011/12.

Have had 4 or 5 managers say the same thing in trade talks and it gets annoying to keep hearing it. Does that mean we dig a players career best value and then trade him based on one season all those years back?

If so, Sam Butler is a pretty valuable player........
Stoney
 
"Winter is coming for you Wacky.

Remember that."
- 18/8/2017
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Stoney
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David Spriggs
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Agree you didn't say those exact words, and this is probably more a public vent as opposed to a personal attack...

Mackie is no more a high 80s player than Sam Butler, Jason Gram or Aaron Davey are 90s players IMO.
Stoney
 
"Winter is coming for you Wacky.

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- 18/8/2017
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Deledio2Conca
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John Meesen
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Butler has missed more games than he has played since he broke into the Eagles side all those years ago, so unfair comparison, as his value is lost because he can't string games together and is chronically injured.

Nope we don't trade on players career best years. And it's a pet hate of mine too don't you worry. So that point doesn't really apply to me.

ALLLLLL I was trying to do was say why I did the trade and brought in Mackie. That's all. I wasn't in there to pump up his tyres and the rest of it, all I was doing is saying why I did it. I don't feel those minor comments should have provoked all this hoo haa lol

And then of course I WASN'T saying 'judge Mackie off his last 2 months', that was just a positive I drew on to help me decide on trading him in.

The problem with your Ablett and Rioli analysis Stoney is it doesn't really compare with what I was saying about Mackie.

I was just saying over the past 2 months Mackie has been averaging the same numbers as his career best year. That wasn't a loaded statement or anything as I know you have to take more than just a few months recent form into account.

Where as you were talking about Rioli averaging 130 odd over a month or so....but the difference is Rioli has never averaged that amount over an entire season...nor has Ablett ever averaged 160.

That was the comment that riled me up the most, basically just because I didn't want people to think that's what I was saying and that that's what I rate players on.



All good though, no doubt Mackie will bend me over and score a 35 on the weekend just to fuck me right up lol

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