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AFFL ROUND SEVENTEEN LOCKOUT:
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| North Melbourne + Fremantle | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 18 2010, 09:24 PM (414 Views) | |
| Deledio2Conca | Mar 18 2010, 09:24 PM Post #1 |
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John Meesen
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Fremantle receives Cameron Mooney + Steve Johnson + Shannon Byrnes + Adam Thomson North Melbourne receives Jack Riewoldt + Rhyce Shaw + Andrew Walker |
| Weeeeeee areeeee the Navy Blues, we are the olllddddd daaarkkkkk Navy Blues | |
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| Colby | Mar 18 2010, 09:25 PM Post #2 |
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Tom Jonas Appreciation Society
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Confirmed. |
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| Stoney | Mar 18 2010, 09:30 PM Post #3 |
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David Spriggs
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wow! d2t - very interested to hear this reasoning. RLL - i think tbnb is taking that bet seriously! haha. massive addition in steve johnson. i guess d2t gets youth, but dont rate any of them except for reiwoldt. |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Deledio2Conca | Mar 18 2010, 09:32 PM Post #4 |
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John Meesen
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Looks bad on paper for me....but let me explain..... Just like the trade I did with JM, I realise I might have to lose some scoring power to gain the key forwards I want, but now that situation is pretty much complete, with Riewoldt and Anthony holding up my key forward roles ![]() IMO there wont be a lot of difference between Mooney and Riewoldt scoring wise this year, and when you factor in the 8-9 odd years difference in age I'm stoked to get young Jack. Losing Stevie J is obviously a HUGE loss, as he genuinely is one of the best small forwards in this game. But obviously I have to give up something big in this deal. Walker is an interesting one, his pre-season has been pretty impressive scoring wise, and my prediction of him averaging 75-85 for this year doesn't look to be far off the mark. Byrnes is an interesting one. Decent enough scorer but not much currency about for him.....and the same probably goes for the bloke I got in return.......Rhyce Shaw. I don't know if I expect Shaw to score 95 ish again, but I think he should be able to top Byrnes' production by 10 points or more. And finally as somewhat of a throw in I gave Adam Thomson. Will never be an elite player but he'll definetly get a good crack at cementing a spot in Richmond's midfield this year and could be very handy for TBNB should injury strike. |
| Weeeeeee areeeee the Navy Blues, we are the olllddddd daaarkkkkk Navy Blues | |
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| Stoney | Mar 18 2010, 09:40 PM Post #5 |
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David Spriggs
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looks incredibly bad on paper, here's hoping the gamble pays off with reiwoldt as being the only player with upside imo. walker just doesnt seem to have the ability to be a premier afl player. and shaw, surely peaked last season and will be on the slide. |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Deledio2Conca | Mar 18 2010, 09:45 PM Post #6 |
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John Meesen
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I know it looks bad on paper, but like I said, when dealing for key forwards, especially young ones, you often have to give up a little more. Like I said, IMO Riewoldt can top Mooney this season as a scorer, and a 9 year age difference is MASSIVE. Riewoldt will develop into a high 80's+ scorer which will be invaluable to me. Youre not wrong about Stevie J, but I definetly think the Geelong bias is creeping in. As good as Johnson is he is a very frustrating supercoacher, and as such probably won't score much higher than what he got in '09, if at all. Byrnes had a good year too but the numbers certainly won't improve, Shaw will definetly topple him in that regard. |
| Weeeeeee areeeee the Navy Blues, we are the olllddddd daaarkkkkk Navy Blues | |
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| Deledio2Conca | Mar 18 2010, 09:51 PM Post #7 |
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John Meesen
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Just as an add on to that, my key forward stocks were basically fucked before today....and thats my fault for underrating that position, but I think ive rectified that now and can go about trying to strengthen the rest of my list. FWIW I had Schulz and Mooney and then basically Rusling as my backup. Now I have two of the best upcoming key forwards (Anthony + Riewoldt) who get a regular game for their respective sides, and have Schulz as an adequate backup. Edited by Deledio2Conca, Mar 18 2010, 09:52 PM.
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| Weeeeeee areeeee the Navy Blues, we are the olllddddd daaarkkkkk Navy Blues | |
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| Pie 4 Life | Mar 18 2010, 10:09 PM Post #8 |
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Mitch Thorp
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I've heard whispers Johnson's body is on the downhill. As in won't be 100% again. He's the main one in this trade. Shaw will continue racking up the numbers, he's the Joel Bowden of the AFL, he'll rack up 30+ uncontested possies each week. Byrnes will slip down a bit, he won't maintain his 80+ score and Mooney will finish in a year or two. Thomson looks good but needs to get his head right, while Walker is up and down. Who wins the trade? Freo, but very marginally. If this was next season I reckon it would tip towards North. Good trade for both sides IMO. |
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| Stoney | Mar 18 2010, 10:12 PM Post #9 |
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David Spriggs
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did you hear those reports from the collingwood medico who declared his body "unfit beyond repair" when we tried to trade him at the end of 2006? johnson's body has been suspect since he was drafted, yet even when no other clubs wanted him because he would never be able to have an impact at the highest level - he became an AA, Norm Smith medalist and one of the most damaging mid sized forwards in the competition. Be careful how much you read into people questioning Johnno's body! |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Stife | Mar 18 2010, 10:51 PM Post #10 |
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John Meesen
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Wow. That is all |
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| reignblack | Mar 18 2010, 11:54 PM Post #11 |
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Jordan McMahon
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go against the grain here..prefer Norths side of this deal don't mind Riewoldt & Walker,both should improve & Shaw is a good scorer dont trust SJ staying fit ,Thomson is a spud,Mooney okish but fading,Byrnes..only way is down imo |
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Trading for 2012..Rule 1.. will not downgrade..Rule 2..there is no rule 2 " Dim the Lights - I Cannot See" - Theatre of Tragedy | |
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| Deledio2Conca | Mar 18 2010, 11:57 PM Post #12 |
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John Meesen
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Surely not, someone who likes my side of the deal haha,, cheers RB. Walker isnt being rated by many here, which I guess can be understandable, but he's obviously going to eclipse last years score by some margin and hit the 75-85 mark like I said, and still only 23. Shaw is the highest scorer of the lot of them and Riewoldt is the main man at Tigerland for now and the next 10 years. If you look at the names, yes it looks bad on paper... If you look at the output however its much, much closer. |
| Weeeeeee areeeee the Navy Blues, we are the olllddddd daaarkkkkk Navy Blues | |
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| Armoooo | Mar 19 2010, 12:06 AM Post #13 |
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Courtney Johns
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TBH this trade looks to me like Jack Riewoldt and Rhyce Shaw for Steve Johnson which IMO is a pretty fair deal. Average scoring players who had a slightly above average season, young 'superstars' who are constantly injured and players over 30 who have never been that good scorers are all a dime a dozen for mine, they are all essentially steak knives. North got the better side of this deal for mine. |
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| Jarman Magic | Mar 19 2010, 12:07 AM Post #14 |
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Beau Dowler
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I'm a bit wary of SJ too to be honest. Sure, I'd be happy to have him in my side but he looked like he was really struggling with his body last season. I rate him as a massive risk. But then again, so is Walker. The player I'd most like to have in my team is Riewoldt although if SJ's body holds up he's the best. |
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| Stoney | Mar 19 2010, 08:32 AM Post #15 |
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David Spriggs
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dont know how people can say byrnes can only go down, yet say shaw is a very good scorer? i agree byrnes will go down, but seriously how in the world can rhyce shaw better 95... walker can never get on the park, and even when he does its always "andrew walker could be a star"... and he never shows anything to get overly excited about. reiwoldt is potentially the best player in this trade, given he is young - but i wouldnt call him a star, or even a sure thing to be honest. cameron mooney will still score better in 2010, and steve j will still average the better side of 90. tbnb is challenging for the premiership - so very good trading for him. north melb are neither here nor there... they cant challenge for this years premiership, and theyre trading for two players who have little improvement left in shaw/walker... |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Deledio2Conca | Mar 19 2010, 09:23 AM Post #16 |
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John Meesen
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I'll say it again, I think the Geelong bias really is seeping it's way into your comments Stoney, which is fair enough, as these players did just bring you a flag. Johnson won't average the better side of 90 (By that I'm guessing you mean 95+)....there's no way. He is brilliant Johnson but there's no way he can become THAT elite when he still has his bad games. People will say "Oh but he was injured last season", a chronic hip injury isn't something most players could just shake off. Not saying he will miss games from it, but the risk is always going to be there. No one is saying Shaw can beat 95, so not sure where you gathered that from? He's every chance to get 90+ again though and you only have to look at his DT score over the weekend (115) to know that he will be playing in the same role as he did last year. Byrnes IMO has had his one good year and will struggle to break 75 this year. He is a downhill skier and with Geelong on a little bit of a decline it certainly won't favour him. Walker yes we all know he is injury prone, but I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can keep his body fit. He has shown throughout the pre-season that when fit he can certainly but the score on the board and there is still obviously room for improvement there with him being just 23 years of age. I'd highly doubt Mooney will score better in 2010, he just isn't an elite forward of the competition and at 30 years of age that graph is going to spiral down. I'd expect a modest 70-75 return for him, with Riewoldt overtaking him scoring wise. Riewoldt is the man at Richmond now and will quite rightly boot 40+ this year. He kicked just 32 last year and still managed 70 ppg and that graph is only going to shoot upward, especially over the next 2-3 years. |
| Weeeeeee areeeee the Navy Blues, we are the olllddddd daaarkkkkk Navy Blues | |
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| Stoney | Mar 19 2010, 09:36 AM Post #17 |
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David Spriggs
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The better side of 90 means 90+, that could mean 91, 92 or 95. He averaged 89 last year, given on past history, theres no reason why he wont get back up into the 90s once again. As for his injuries, if he was as bad as everyone makes out - why would we risk him in the opening round of the nab cup? his body is severly overrated as being something that will see his scores drop - as said, he has had injuries that have had people say he will never make it since 2006 - and he's since become a star. I said Shaw can only go backwards - to which you just agreed when you said he'll av 90. Byrnes will go backwards - im not debating that, I'm just pointing out that everyone is saying Byrnes will slide.... but saying shaw is a good pickup? doesnt make too much sense to me if he is likely to go backwards. walker is either glass half full, glass half empty... you can look at him two ways, but even at his best I've never thought much of him. Mooney will score more for the sole reason - Geelong will present him with more opportunities than the Tiges midfield will give to poor old Jack. Reiwoldt is a better player than Mooney hands down, and if he played for a better team his appeal would be massive. But the fact is, he doesnt. Im not being Geelong bias at all dude, in fact I'm saying - 1) Mooney isnt as good as Reiwoldt, but they're respective scores wont change much as Moons will still get plenty of opportunities whereas Reiwoldt will do his best in a struggling side. 2) Byrnes will definitly go backwards 3) Steve Johnson can improve on last year's average to be the better side of 90 (ie - anything over 90) which is definitly not out of the question given he's actually had a pretty good pre season by his standards - despite everyone assuming he's been sitting on the couch resting an injured hip???? So I'm praising one out of 3 geelong players, hardly being bias. |
- 18/8/2017 | |
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| Deledio2Conca | Mar 19 2010, 09:47 AM Post #18 |
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John Meesen
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I still disagree 110% with the Mooney assessment. You say he'll get more opportunities than Jack, which isn't up for debate because obviously thats true....but how that automatically equates to more points is beyond me. IMO Mooney will see LESS opportunities than he has in the past, as I expect a tiny Cats decline this season, they won't finish in the top 2 IMO. Riewoldt will see MORE opportunities than he has in the past with no Richo or Nathan Brown there being the main target. So I agree that Mooney will see more opportunities than Riewoldt, however, Riewoldt doesn't need as many opportunities to score as Mooney does, and I see Roo being used more this season than in previous years, while Mooney will be the opposite IMO. People are saying Shaw is a good pickup because he averages and will average 90+.....whats wrong with that? Shaw is a 10-15 point better player than Byrnes so I don't see what the confusion is as to why you can't understand how some people can rate Shaw and not Byrnes. FWIW I don't believe Stevie J will be crippled by injury, I'm just saying that I don't think he can score much better than his '09 season which was incredible. |
| Weeeeeee areeeee the Navy Blues, we are the olllddddd daaarkkkkk Navy Blues | |
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