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North / St Kilda Trade
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Topic Started: Dec 15 2017, 11:22 AM (395 Views)
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Stife
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Dec 15 2017, 11:22 AM
Post #1
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Hi all,
The admin wish to announce the reversal of the recent North/StK trade. While we acknowledge that this move may not be popular among all coaches, especially given the movement towards avoiding reversals over the past few years, we felt it a necessary move for a few reasons, among them protecting a still newly appointed coach. TJM waited a long time for his opportunity, and we knew it may not be the smoothest learning curve to integrate him into the cutthroat site that AFFL is. However, with our recent decline in coaching interest and activity, we need to move forward and show a little more tolerance and care for our newer coaches - to both retain them and train them into future successful coaches.
Preventing their lists from being decimated is part of this. We are aware that new coaches have a steep learning curve, and the weakening of their lists is one reason why some lose interest. We aim to reduce this teething period and the damage to the list associated with it, and help mentor these coaches into long term and valuable parts of our site. We also wish to stamp out the amendment of deals to 'significant wins but slightly not significant enough to force a reversal' once the idea of reversal is raised. The solution is to know better.
While this is not a swipe at any coach, the time for considering a new appointment as an easy opportunity to quickly improve your list is over. It is toxic for the site. We implore all coaches to consider the long term consequences for this site itself if we keep preying on new coaches and seeing them as an easy target. While we don't wish to intervene in a coaches ability to find their own feet, sometimes it is necessary. To that end, any future deal that results in the admin having to remove, warn or have a 'frank discussion' with a new coach is liable for reversal. We need to be patient, not predatory.
We intend to work with TJM to guide him to the aptitude and level necessary to compete on this site, but be assured that if coaches remain behind the pack for too long action will be taken.
Cheers
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Schulzenfest
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Dec 15 2017, 11:29 AM
Post #2
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- Stife
- Dec 15 2017, 11:22 AM
Hi all, The admin wish to announce the reversal of the recent North/StK trade. While we acknowledge that this move may not be popular among all coaches, especially given the movement towards avoiding reversals over the past few years, we felt it a necessary move for a few reasons, among them protecting a still newly appointed coach. TJM waited a long time for his opportunity, and we knew it may not be the smoothest learning curve to integrate him into the cutthroat site that AFFL is. However, with our recent decline in coaching interest and activity, we need to move forward and show a little more tolerance and care for our newer coaches - to both retain them and train them into future successful coaches. Preventing their lists from being decimated is part of this. We are aware that new coaches have a steep learning curve, and the weakening of their lists is one reason why some lose interest. We aim to reduce this teething period and the damage to the list associated with it, and help mentor these coaches into long term and valuable parts of our site. We also wish to stamp out the amendment of deals to 'significant wins but slightly not significant enough to force a reversal' once the idea of reversal is raised. The solution is to know better. While this is not a swipe at any coach, the time for considering a new appointment as an easy opportunity to quickly improve your list is over. It is toxic for the site. We implore all coaches to consider the long term consequences for this site itself if we keep preying on new coaches and seeing them as an easy target. While we don't wish to intervene in a coaches ability to find their own feet, sometimes it is necessary. To that end, any future deal that results in the admin having to remove, warn or have a 'frank discussion' with a new coach is liable for reversal. We need to be patient, not predatory.We intend to work with TJM to guide him to the aptitude and level necessary to compete on this site, but be assured that if coaches remain behind the pack for too long action will be taken. Cheers Agree 100% with this.
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Colby
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Dec 15 2017, 12:19 PM
Post #3
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Tom Jonas Appreciation Society
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Dudes, you guys chose to not even amend the Coniglio for Hickey trade in what was F2G's probably first five deals on the site? You've allowed Gav and others to repeatedly rape coaches, but because they kick up a stink about it and try to be difficult, nothing is done about it. I tried to be gracious and easy going about this and I see now that this was clearly the wrong strategy from me.
AFFL runs on precedent, rightly or wrongly, so for this to be outright reversed despite being amended without even conversing with me in the process is an absolute joke. IMO this deal can either stand with its amendment and TJ continues on with a hard word about his attitude to trading, or the deal can be reversed and TJ sacked. I can't fathom how you guys have hedged bets on this. I'll await your response before deciding my response to this.
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StifeJust got out of a long, long relationship. Single living ftw. Freelance sex object
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Pie 4 Life
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Dec 15 2017, 12:22 PM
Post #4
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- Colby
- Dec 15 2017, 12:19 PM
Dudes, you guys chose to not even amend the Coniglio for Hickey trade in what was F2G's probably first five deals on the site? You've allowed Gav and others to repeatedly rape coaches, but because they kick up a stink about it and try to be difficult, nothing is done about it. I tried to be gracious and easy going about this and I see now that this was clearly the wrong strategy from me.
AFFL runs on precedent, rightly or wrongly, so for this to be outright reversed despite being amended without even conversing with me in the process is an absolute joke. IMO this deal can either stand with its amendment and TJ continues on with a hard word about his attitude to trading, or the deal can be reversed and TJ sacked. I can't fathom how you guys have hedged bets on this. I'll await your response before deciding my response to this. Is it too late to reverse that deal?
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- Shabby
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And yes, Nick Maxwell is a pretty elite defender in this game.
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Stoney
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Dec 15 2017, 12:24 PM
Post #5
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I don’t hate the decision, but I really feel for Colby in this situation (... at least until he kicks up a big deal about it, and that will lessen the blow).
TJM, I’m sure I speak for the majority - we can definitely appreciate new-ish coaches that sometimes under-estimate certain players trade value, but there’s literally no tolerance beyond this point for confusing players and forgetting about long term injuries.
Please start paying a bit more attention to detail.
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- Stoney
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"Winter is coming for you Wacky.
Remember that." - 18/8/2017
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Stife
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Dec 15 2017, 12:31 PM
Post #6
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- Colby
- Dec 15 2017, 12:19 PM
Dudes, you guys chose to not even amend the Coniglio for Hickey trade in what was F2G's probably first five deals on the site? You've allowed Gav and others to repeatedly rape coaches, but because they kick up a stink about it and try to be difficult, nothing is done about it. I tried to be gracious and easy going about this and I see now that this was clearly the wrong strategy from me.
AFFL runs on precedent, rightly or wrongly, so for this to be outright reversed despite being amended without even conversing with me in the process is an absolute joke. IMO this deal can either stand with its amendment and TJ continues on with a hard word about his attitude to trading, or the deal can be reversed and TJ sacked. I can't fathom how you guys have hedged bets on this. I'll await your response before deciding my response to this. Precedents can be changed though. Just because a precedent was set in the past, it doesn’t mean it’s binding forever.
In this case, I/we acknowledge the precedent and make clear we intend to change it. Consider this a line in the sand. Perhaps it’s bad luck for you that this wad the first example, but someone has to be first.
If I were blue for the hickey trade it’d have had more opposition. But one poor decision doesn’t mean we can’t recitfy a poor precedent. Look what happened to F2G as well. His interest tapered and he found it too unforgiving. We’re trying to adapt. I’m not absolving TJM of culpability - in fact I regret that he has proven himself so below standard we are forced to intervene. I’m even more disappointed in his justification and his response to private conversations we had before the deal happened. And how he responds to this is important. He’s not off the hook nor absolved. It’s not a hedging of bets, it’s a new approach to adapt to the current coaching climate. - as past approaches have not worked.
If you fear reversal, the simplest solution is not to rape a newbie. Challenge yourself, and rape established coaches instead.
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Pinny
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Dec 15 2017, 12:31 PM
Post #7
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TJ
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Pinny
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Dec 15 2017, 12:35 PM
Post #8
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Stoney
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Dec 15 2017, 12:37 PM
Post #9
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Pinny has just learnt how to post pictures...
Strap yourselves in, it’s gonna be a lonnnnnng arvo if Pinny has the day off
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- Stoney
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"Winter is coming for you Wacky.
Remember that." - 18/8/2017
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Colby
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Dec 15 2017, 12:38 PM
Post #10
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Tom Jonas Appreciation Society
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- Stife
- Dec 15 2017, 12:31 PM
- Colby
- Dec 15 2017, 12:19 PM
Dudes, you guys chose to not even amend the Coniglio for Hickey trade in what was F2G's probably first five deals on the site? You've allowed Gav and others to repeatedly rape coaches, but because they kick up a stink about it and try to be difficult, nothing is done about it. I tried to be gracious and easy going about this and I see now that this was clearly the wrong strategy from me.
AFFL runs on precedent, rightly or wrongly, so for this to be outright reversed despite being amended without even conversing with me in the process is an absolute joke. IMO this deal can either stand with its amendment and TJ continues on with a hard word about his attitude to trading, or the deal can be reversed and TJ sacked. I can't fathom how you guys have hedged bets on this. I'll await your response before deciding my response to this.
Precedents can be changed though. Just because a precedent was set in the past, it doesn’t mean it’s binding forever. In this case, I/we acknowledge the precedent and make clear we intend to change it. Consider this a line in the sand. Perhaps it’s bad luck for you that this wad the first example, but someone has to be first. If I were blue for the hickey trade it’d have had more opposition. But one poor decision doesn’t mean we can’t recitfy a poor precedent. Look what happened to F2G as well. His interest tapered and he found it too unforgiving. We’re trying to adapt. I’m not absolving TJM of culpability - in fact I regret that he has proven himself so below standard we are forced to intervene. I’m even more disappointed in his justification and his response to private conversations we had before the deal happened. And how he responds to this is important. He’s not off the hook nor absolved. It’s not a hedging of bets, it’s a new approach to adapt to the current coaching climate. - as past approaches have not worked. If you fear reversal, the simplest solution is not to rape a newbie. Challenge yourself, and rape established coaches instead. See, I'm really not enjoying having my integrity questioned over this. One of the things I've kept off the boards about this is how TJ literally negotiated himself into a worse position with every PM we exchanged, this was not a case of me 'preying' on the newbie. I wasn't even aware TJ was still considered a newbie coach after a month in and probably double figures trades made, shit even back in the day we had "newbie panels" it was only for a coaches first 4-5 trades lol.
I'm struggling to see the reasoning behind this deal being reversed and TJ staying on, I feel like it's one or the other. But above all, stop questioning my integrity over this when I've handled it better than any coach has in the past even after they got their way over it. It's uncalled for.
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- Quote:
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StifeJust got out of a long, long relationship. Single living ftw. Freelance sex object
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Stoney
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Dec 15 2017, 12:39 PM
Post #11
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Pinny, can you post a ‘Michael Jackson eating popcorn’ GIF? That would be highly appropriate.
#YoureWelcome
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- Stoney
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"Winter is coming for you Wacky.
Remember that." - 18/8/2017
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Stife
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Dec 15 2017, 12:40 PM
Post #12
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The intention is not to question your integrity.
To clarify, I will be clear - I have no qualms about your conduct, and consider (until this post at least) your behaviour to have been above board this whole saga. Not mentioning your name in this thread was intentional, as you are not the problem being referring to.
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Pie 4 Life
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Dec 15 2017, 12:43 PM
Post #13
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- Colby
- Dec 15 2017, 12:38 PM
- Stife
- Dec 15 2017, 12:31 PM
- Colby
- Dec 15 2017, 12:19 PM
Dudes, you guys chose to not even amend the Coniglio for Hickey trade in what was F2G's probably first five deals on the site? You've allowed Gav and others to repeatedly rape coaches, but because they kick up a stink about it and try to be difficult, nothing is done about it. I tried to be gracious and easy going about this and I see now that this was clearly the wrong strategy from me.
AFFL runs on precedent, rightly or wrongly, so for this to be outright reversed despite being amended without even conversing with me in the process is an absolute joke. IMO this deal can either stand with its amendment and TJ continues on with a hard word about his attitude to trading, or the deal can be reversed and TJ sacked. I can't fathom how you guys have hedged bets on this. I'll await your response before deciding my response to this.
Precedents can be changed though. Just because a precedent was set in the past, it doesn’t mean it’s binding forever. In this case, I/we acknowledge the precedent and make clear we intend to change it. Consider this a line in the sand. Perhaps it’s bad luck for you that this wad the first example, but someone has to be first. If I were blue for the hickey trade it’d have had more opposition. But one poor decision doesn’t mean we can’t recitfy a poor precedent. Look what happened to F2G as well. His interest tapered and he found it too unforgiving. We’re trying to adapt. I’m not absolving TJM of culpability - in fact I regret that he has proven himself so below standard we are forced to intervene. I’m even more disappointed in his justification and his response to private conversations we had before the deal happened. And how he responds to this is important. He’s not off the hook nor absolved. It’s not a hedging of bets, it’s a new approach to adapt to the current coaching climate. - as past approaches have not worked. If you fear reversal, the simplest solution is not to rape a newbie. Challenge yourself, and rape established coaches instead.
See, I'm really not enjoying having my integrity questioned over this. One of the things I've kept off the boards about this is how TJ literally negotiated himself into a worse position with every PM we exchanged, this was not a case of me 'preying' on the newbie. I wasn't even aware TJ was still considered a newbie coach after a month in and probably double figures trades made, shit even back in the day we had "newbie panels" it was only for a coaches first 4-5 trades lol. I'm struggling to see the reasoning behind this deal being reversed and TJ staying on, I feel like it's one or the other. But above all, stop questioning my integrity over this when I've handled it better than any coach has in the past even after they got their way over it. It's uncalled for. I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Colby on this one.
In my dealings with TJM, I've made an offers to him and then checked with Wacky who thinks the deal is fair. Only for TJM to come back and downgrade the offer with something he rates more. I have a feeling he overrates some players massively and others he doesn't rate at all (same for everyone, but his view is just so off).
There's been a few times in trade talks where I've offered a few things and then he's traded those players without responding, or responds with a statement and no counter. I'm pretty relaxed and I myself know sometimes you're not on for a few days and that's cool, but it's just the waiting for a response only to see the players traded that frustrates me.
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- Shabby
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And yes, Nick Maxwell is a pretty elite defender in this game.
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Pinny
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Dec 15 2017, 12:43 PM
Post #14
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- Stoney
- Dec 15 2017, 12:37 PM
Pinny has just learnt how to post pictures... Strap yourselves in, it’s gonna be a lonnnnnng arvo if Pinny has the day off I knew how to do it on a Computer just not my phone, luckily its quiet time at work so im ready to fire
Also if anyone wants to trade I'm free
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Schulzenfest
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Dec 15 2017, 12:43 PM
Post #15
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Can we all stop calling for people to be sacked every few days? TJM has made some mistakes but at least the fucker's active.
We're just not going to find 16 active, committed, trade savvy coaches at any one time. The fact that this site has as many as it does is a credit to it. If we want a site where everybody is as committed as the top guys are, then we're almost certainly going to have to cut teams again, which I personally wouldn't like to see.
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Pie 4 Life
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Dec 15 2017, 12:44 PM
Post #16
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Also in saying I agree with Colby, I agree with the admin's decision, there's not much you can do and education is the best way forward. I'm just speaking from experience in reference to TJM's trade talks and how difficult it can be.
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- Shabby
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And yes, Nick Maxwell is a pretty elite defender in this game.
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Pie 4 Life
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Dec 15 2017, 12:44 PM
Post #17
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- Schulzenfest
- Dec 15 2017, 12:43 PM
Can we all stop calling for people to be sacked every few days? TJM has made some mistakes but at least the fucker's active.
We're just not going to find 16 active, committed, trade savvy coaches at any one time. The fact that this site has as many as it does is a credit to it. #sackSchulzenfest
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- Shabby
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And yes, Nick Maxwell is a pretty elite defender in this game.
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Pinny
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Dec 15 2017, 12:45 PM
Post #18
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Pinny
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Dec 15 2017, 12:46 PM
Post #19
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- Schulzenfest
- Dec 15 2017, 12:43 PM
Can we all stop calling for people to be sacked every few days? TJM has made some mistakes but at least the fucker's active.
We're just not going to find 16 active, committed, trade savvy coaches at any one time. The fact that this site has as many as it does is a credit to it. If he respond's to my PM's i will stop, but until then
#replyTJM #Iwannatraderapeyou
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Schulzenfest
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Dec 15 2017, 12:53 PM
Post #20
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- Pie 4 Life
- Dec 15 2017, 12:43 PM
- Colby
- Dec 15 2017, 12:38 PM
- Stife
- Dec 15 2017, 12:31 PM
- Colby
- Dec 15 2017, 12:19 PM
Dudes, you guys chose to not even amend the Coniglio for Hickey trade in what was F2G's probably first five deals on the site? You've allowed Gav and others to repeatedly rape coaches, but because they kick up a stink about it and try to be difficult, nothing is done about it. I tried to be gracious and easy going about this and I see now that this was clearly the wrong strategy from me.
AFFL runs on precedent, rightly or wrongly, so for this to be outright reversed despite being amended without even conversing with me in the process is an absolute joke. IMO this deal can either stand with its amendment and TJ continues on with a hard word about his attitude to trading, or the deal can be reversed and TJ sacked. I can't fathom how you guys have hedged bets on this. I'll await your response before deciding my response to this.
Precedents can be changed though. Just because a precedent was set in the past, it doesn’t mean it’s binding forever. In this case, I/we acknowledge the precedent and make clear we intend to change it. Consider this a line in the sand. Perhaps it’s bad luck for you that this wad the first example, but someone has to be first. If I were blue for the hickey trade it’d have had more opposition. But one poor decision doesn’t mean we can’t recitfy a poor precedent. Look what happened to F2G as well. His interest tapered and he found it too unforgiving. We’re trying to adapt. I’m not absolving TJM of culpability - in fact I regret that he has proven himself so below standard we are forced to intervene. I’m even more disappointed in his justification and his response to private conversations we had before the deal happened. And how he responds to this is important. He’s not off the hook nor absolved. It’s not a hedging of bets, it’s a new approach to adapt to the current coaching climate. - as past approaches have not worked. If you fear reversal, the simplest solution is not to rape a newbie. Challenge yourself, and rape established coaches instead.
See, I'm really not enjoying having my integrity questioned over this. One of the things I've kept off the boards about this is how TJ literally negotiated himself into a worse position with every PM we exchanged, this was not a case of me 'preying' on the newbie. I wasn't even aware TJ was still considered a newbie coach after a month in and probably double figures trades made, shit even back in the day we had "newbie panels" it was only for a coaches first 4-5 trades lol. I'm struggling to see the reasoning behind this deal being reversed and TJ staying on, I feel like it's one or the other. But above all, stop questioning my integrity over this when I've handled it better than any coach has in the past even after they got their way over it. It's uncalled for.
I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Colby on this one. In my dealings with TJM, I've made an offers to him and then checked with Wacky who thinks the deal is fair. Only for TJM to come back and downgrade the offer with something he rates more. I have a feeling he overrates some players massively and others he doesn't rate at all (same for everyone, but his view is just so off).There's been a few times in trade talks where I've offered a few things and then he's traded those players without responding, or responds with a statement and no counter. I'm pretty relaxed and I myself know sometimes you're not on for a few days and that's cool, but it's just the waiting for a response only to see the players traded that frustrates me. The thing that all newbies seem to struggle with most is putting aside their personal feelings (to an extent) and trying to align their drafting and trading in accordance with the wider market value of players. 'I like Player X' isn't a good justification for trading a higher scoring Player Y for him, at least not as a straight swap. That's not to say don't back your judgment, but if you're the only bloke on the site who rates Player X higher than Player Y, then at least aim to get some favourable pick swaps thrown in or something.
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