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| Religion | |
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| Topic Started: 6th February 2007 - 03:32 PM (797 Views) | |
| Milgod | 6th February 2007 - 03:32 PM Post #1 |
Giver of REBELOVE !!!
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With the current climate of religious conflict, does anyone else think that atheism might be the way forward for the safety of our planet? Do we really need religion in today’s World; is there even a place for it? Would the World have been a better place if today if there was never religion? Just a few thoughts, but I personally feel the World would be a very different place if there were no religion. It would be a lot more welcoming and safer for it. |
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| mmal | 6th February 2007 - 03:52 PM Post #2 |
Best female foreigner
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Well religion seems to be the root of all evil at times but I don't really think it's religion that's the problem but the fanatics who use it to their own causes. If they didn't have religion to use they'd find another platform. It's the quest for power that's the real problem and that doesn't need religion to fire it. |
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| Kev Walker | 6th February 2007 - 04:08 PM Post #3 |
Services to LUFC for putting up with a scouser!!!
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I've no problems with anyone following a faith but it's the way it's followed, preached and mis-used that I have problems with. My Mother is Catholic and my Father wasn't and didn't hold any thoughts to religion so myself, my brother and 3 sisters were taught in Catholic schools and all the brain-washing that went with it. The nuns were vicous with the female kids and the priests were the same with the male kids. My mother was "expected" to take me to church every Sunday and a visit from the Priest usually entailed if we were absent - funny how the Priest never called when me dad was at home as he'd have probably got a boot up his arse if he'd heard the way the Priest talked to my mam. Most of my teen years I spent with my backside to the wall when it came to the school changing rooms or a visit to the local baths, as a young lad I was told never to be alone with a priest in those situations, funny how people knew what certain ones were like but never did anything about it (even vigourously denied it). We once won a 5-a-side football competition after school, - the school priest took us to the Catholic Club and paraded us around, everyone was buying us Whiskey to celebrate - we were 12 years old and shit-faced but because the priest took us that was ok. The richest "company" in the world preaches poverty and expects the poor to dig deep in their pockets to help the few who are chosen live a better life (then them). As soon as I left school I stuck 2-fingers up to the church and I'll await the outcome when I'm dead. |
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| Milgod | 6th February 2007 - 04:37 PM Post #4 |
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Giver of REBELOVE !!!
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I do think its a dangerous situation when children are brought up to believe in god. It not their free choice if they are brought up to believe in it. I don't think religion has a place in school. RE lessons are vital, but I don't think schools should follow a particular belief. |
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| cuppy | 6th February 2007 - 04:47 PM Post #5 |
Friendliest Poster 2006
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I respect peoples religions but I do believe people use their religion as an excuse for them to behave in a bad way. The one consistancy across the religions is this idea of peace, yet you look a the conflicts today and how many are down to religion. Its frightening that people use god/gods/or whatever religious being as a weapon. At times people say that man has created a lot of evil destructive weapons in this world....guns, missiles, nuclea bombs....but I think they pale into insignificance in the face of what I am starting to believe is mans most deadliest and destructive weapon...religion. |
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| Milgod | 6th February 2007 - 05:29 PM Post #6 |
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Giver of REBELOVE !!!
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I don't see the NEED for religion in the modern World. It was a tool used to control the masses in the past, but we have governments to do that now. Of course, it might not be too easy to dispose of all religions. |
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| morley white | 6th February 2007 - 06:54 PM Post #7 |
100% Leeds
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as an atheiest i would welcome a world where there is zero religion as i see no tangible proof as to what any religion as ever done to improve the world we live in. yes i admit on a personal level people have found the strength to deal with troubles in life from thier faith but i also believe that if they had never been brainwashed this way in the first place they would have found the same strength of character required. as for RE at school, i would prefer to see none at all, but seeing as it seems to be a must, then i agree with what millie says (the way they do it at my lads school) and that an equal amount of time is dedicated to all the major faiths. At least in doing this we have a hope of building up a cross faith understanding, which hopefully will lead to a more peaceful future. |
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| Mugsey | 6th February 2007 - 07:02 PM Post #8 |
100% Leeds
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I have been brought up in the Catholic faith and have gone too Catholic schools and would still consider myself to be a practicing Catholic but do not feel that this makes me in any way different to anyone else i meet who might happen not to share these views as while religon can be a large part of ones life it is after all just something that you hold close and dear to yourself the same way you coudl, to a mcuch lesser extent, do a football club or past-time of another kind. religon can not be said to cause wars as trust me when i say that war would have been amajor part of human life regardless of religon's existence, we were throwing each other out of tree tops long before we could say let alone believe in a god. It is mans nature to be wary of those they or what we do not understand, ie strangers, and it will remain so 'til the end of time. |
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| morley white | 6th February 2007 - 07:14 PM Post #9 |
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100% Leeds
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i agree with the last part you put there mugsey but how many "wars" are today being fought in the name of religion? maybe blaming religion is just the modern day way of labeling conflicts, and if that is the case then religion gets a bad press, but it does seem to me that most wars these days are not so much fought between nations but religions |
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| MDF | 6th February 2007 - 08:45 PM Post #10 |
A little rusty....
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And just how could this be acheived?....after a cure for the common cold perhaps? |
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| Mugsey | 6th February 2007 - 08:55 PM Post #11 |
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100% Leeds
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That is true to a degree but the way i see it is that if these reilgons were not at war with one another over religon their respective countries would be at war with someone else over something else. I think that religon just as you said is getting a bad press, people seem to forget all the good work that is being done, and has for centuries, by members of organised religon who feelit their duty as part of their religon to help those they feel to be less fortunate than themselves. |
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| garlic bread | 6th February 2007 - 11:20 PM Post #12 |
SHIRT LIFTER!!!!!!!!!!
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Most religions are postitive and have a positive effect on the lives of millions/billions of people. They consistently deliver positive messages. To dismiss it and say the world doesnt need religion seems arrogant to me. Most religions define life experiences and begin the teaching of right and wrong from an early age. I do not see the problem with this. I do see problems of using and masking religion into something that it isnt, i.e. Kevs example of a priest getting children drunk...Please do not confuse religion with extremism...they are not the same. My experience of Religion is a postitive one. Brought up a catholic, educated in catholic schools, etc. Even now the familiy still get together most sundays at church and go back to Mum and dads house for a 'chin wag'. Given that my direct family is now 16...thats alot of chins wagging... Even if I didnt believe and god does not exist etc, it still brings us together every sunday and that can only be a positive thing. Yes I know my family could still meet every sunday, but the reality is that without church, it wouldnt happen... A modern world does not need many things drugs, alcohol, greed etc, but they are very much in our society now and always have been.. |
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| Milgod | 7th February 2007 - 09:57 AM Post #13 |
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Giver of REBELOVE !!!
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I was not confusing religion with extremism. I see the good that religion can do as well. However, you don't need religion to be a good person. Why can a child not be brought up to know right from wrong without being told they will go to hell? Not all religious values are wholesome either. I can't agree with their views on homosexuals for instance. The church would call me a sinner for having my first child out of wedlock too. A bit harsh seeing they don't even know me. I just feel that there isn’t the need for religion any more. They were used as a way to control people when there weren’t nations in the same way we have today. I understand it is too late to just ‘get rid of’ religion as well. It would cause more problems than benefits. I don’t stand against anyone following their beliefs either, provided they don’t try and impose them on me. I went to a Catholic school also so know what it was like. I won't be sending my child to a religious school because I want them to have free choice in what they believe. |
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| garlic bread | 7th February 2007 - 09:48 PM Post #14 |
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SHIRT LIFTER!!!!!!!!!!
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Milly - couple of points regarding your post... You dont need religion to be an evil person either... Who says you go to Hell if you dont know about right and wrong..dont think that happens in todays religion Modern church would not call you a sinner for having a child out of wedlock. They are very open..even liberal, to certain ways of modern life, such as divorce, marriage, contraception - your view is an old one, however, I take your point that it is your view and your experience Religion hasnt been about control for a lot of years!! What atheist schools are there???? I love debating religion!!! haha |
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| Fitz | 7th February 2007 - 10:42 PM Post #15 |
Perfectly formed member
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Just get it all out your system before Saturday.....You know the things you don't talk about in in Irish pub...... :lolanimate: |
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| mmal | 7th February 2007 - 10:55 PM Post #16 |
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Best female foreigner
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I've no problem with religion, I was raised catholic, it never did me any harm. I had nuns teach me for 12 years and never had a problem with any of them either, in fact they were very good teachers, didn't put up with no bs but treated us fairly. I think if nothing else it teaches us respect for others something that is quite lacking in todays world. Yes it's up to the parents to do that but they don't. When I was seriously ill a year and a half ago, my beliefs gave me strength to endure what I had too in order to get better. |
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| Milgod | 8th February 2007 - 09:57 AM Post #17 |
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Giver of REBELOVE !!!
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GB, I think you are taking what I’m saying as an attack on religion. I am just trying to say that I don't think it is needed anymore. Also, just because some religious people are more liberal now doesn't mean the church wouldn't call people sinners for certain things. If they didn't then what would be the point of following their religion? Religious leaders might not be as vocal about what is right and wrong today but they still believe in what sins are. I didn't quite get what you mean by the school point. A non-religious school is just a normal school. |
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| garlic bread | 8th February 2007 - 03:15 PM Post #18 |
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SHIRT LIFTER!!!!!!!!!!
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Milly - i dont think you are attacking religion per se, but you cannot say that religion is not required without a reaction.... My point was not so much around the religious people but the church becoming more liberal in their views to such things as childern, divorce etc. Again, my experience is that the church want to help and assist where possible and realise that marriages do go wrong, that children are born out of wed lock, that contraception should be used rather than unwanted pregnancy... The school point was around the fact that I'm not aware of schools that dont have a religious slant be it catholic, c of e, etc etc |
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| Fitz | 8th February 2007 - 03:34 PM Post #19 |
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Perfectly formed member
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I must say, I'm finished with organised religion. A guy I went to school with was abused repeatedly by a priest, who was moved by the parish, rather doing anything about him. Colm set up an organisation called one-in 4 to help people in a similar situation. He was castigated on Wexford local radio by a load of old "catholic" men and women who called him a disgrace for besmirching the good name of the Church, calling him a liar. The fact that the Church paid him compensation would have proved him a liar alright........ The new Pope has now been exposed as the Church's top enforcer for the hushing up of children sex abuse cases, yet he is supposed too be infallible? God speaks through him? Does he f**k. Bishop Eamonn Casey standing in the pulpit week after week telling people how wrong it was to have sex outside marriage, bring children into the world out of wedlock, and all the time he had fathered a child himself? Hypocritical bastard. Living on funds provided by the Church while he was away from the glare of the spotlight here, then slunk back into a house paid for by the Church? ArchBishop of Chicago (or Boston) had a $7MILLION budget for paying off abuse victims. plus the amount of abusing priests he moved around from one parish to another, and one he moved to the UK and the US police were on his trail. Bishop of Ferns who took no action against the priest referred to in the beginning used to go to Thailand regularly on "holidays"? Dodged everything by confessing to being an alcoholic, then checking himself in to detox. All quiet from him now. The Catholic Church in Ireland does a deal with the most stupid Govt on Earth (Ours) to limit their liability to £125M for abuse cases. After that, the State picks up the tab, and that is expected to run to over a BILLION, as the payouts at the moment are going for around €300,000 People are probably reading this and thinking these are isolated cases. They are not, in this country this seems more the rule, rather than the exception. The Bible; re-written by men, for men. I think I'll become a Buddhist, they seem happy. C of E always seemed to me to be based on one man's desire to get into a second set of pants, and then took the bits they liked from Catholicism(No offence intended, BTW). Quite like the adherence to the old ways of Judaeism, but don't know enough about it. Islam worries me, as it seems so open to interpretation, but all, as far as I can see, have been used at some stage as excuses for war. |
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| Matt | 8th February 2007 - 03:40 PM Post #20 |
Dee's a liar....
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Must say i have similar thoughts and have done for a while, i was confirmed when i was 13 (CofE) but soon after became disillusioned with it all. My thoughts are this, i believe in something, not sure what, no idea who, just something, when i figure it out i'll keep it to myself but i sure as hell won't follow everyone else, religion is just following another bunch of people who believe in something and have labeled it. |
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| garlic bread | 8th February 2007 - 07:46 PM Post #21 |
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SHIRT LIFTER!!!!!!!!!!
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Fitz - love the henry Vlll reference :lolanimate: |
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| CWINNIT | 9th February 2007 - 09:38 PM Post #22 |
100% Leeds
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What we need is an Alien Invasion with some Green two headed monsters who want to eat all humans, then all Humans will 'unite' irrelevant to Religion and we'll fight the buggers on the beaches! |
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| Wurzel | 19th August 2007 - 12:14 AM Post #23 |
Addicted 606 Rebel
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After I seeing this video clip, I make no apology for reopening this thread. The lady involved is an American/Arab psychologist from L.A. She has got to be one of the bravest people in the world for appearing on Al Jazeera T.V. debating with a Muslim fundamentalist. She articulates perfectly everything I believe. Needless to say, I doubt she will be taking a vacation in the middle east in the near future. video clip |
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| Rob | 19th August 2007 - 09:06 AM Post #24 |
previously WWW
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Why then in this modern world do the catholic church still refuse to endorse the use of Condoms in large areas of catholic hiv infested africa ? Most relegions are out for what they can get .. give words and expect money |
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| Eastyorkswhite | 19th August 2007 - 09:42 PM Post #25 |
100% Leeds
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My feelings are that Relgion is a massive major factor in the worlds greatest and bloodiest conflicts ,Each to their own but myself dont believe in religion even to the point where young Johnny hasnt been christened thats his desicion when he gets older i didnt want to force a religion on him |
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| Sir Quej Of Quejdom | 23rd August 2007 - 02:36 PM Post #26 |
100% Leeds
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Spot on mmal. It's not religion that causes wars. It is the people who claim the religion. Saying Religion should be banned is like saying Cars should be banned to stop drink driving. |
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| Wickywhite | 30th August 2007 - 10:45 AM Post #27 |
best all-rounder
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I don't think it's dangerous to bring children up in this way, but I do think that if a child comes to question their religion, that they should be listened to and their views respected. I think there is an attitude in schools which doesn't give children a voice and this may be where the christian faiths fall down. I have my own reasons for not being religious but I do think that the bible carries a good over all moral code to live by. What does annoy me though, are those religious types who use their religion to feel superior, or to hide behind with alterior motives such as terrorism, peodophilia etc. For me, they are not religious at all and simply give those that are a bad name. |
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| aksattee | 31st August 2007 - 11:14 AM Post #28 |
Most well behaved
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I agree with most comments here on this subject and just wanted to add my views That Religion is fine as far as I am concern as it is a personal choice and individual persons belief and I highly respect that. the problem arises when an individual tries to enforce their Views or Religion on to the others or stating that one is better then the other. That is when small disagreements develop in to major conflicts. People are becoming less tolerant, also people are getting to forceful in to dictating their views. |
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| Headingley White | 25th December 2007 - 10:59 PM Post #29 |
Creep 2004
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As possibly one of my last posts on this board I'd like to drag up this old post, a post I have avoided until now. Religion practiced privately by people who still accept science and reason while believing in a god (or gods) do not overly concern me. Deism while rejecting dogma and doctrine harms nobody. Dennett, Dawkins, et al strongly argue against this stance, as they believe moderates allow fundamentalists scope to push their agendas. I am not so hard line on this, as I don't know enough about it. What scares the shit out of me are the likes of Pat Robertson, who are religious fundamentalists with a political leaning. The secular society in which we almost live is something to be protected, and fought for if neccessary. We must not allow religion to have any say in how governments are run, but we must equally not single out any particular religion as the 'enemy', as they ALL have their own evils. I'll leave it to Hitchens and Harris to go into detail on this (Hitchens 'God is Not Great' is a brilliant read, far more lucid than Dawkins 'God Delusion' which at times argues against itself), however the growing status of (mainly Jewish and Christian) religion in the face of anti-Muslim media and government propaganda is something that is going to take our species down a long and ultimately destructive road. I seriously recommend everybody read Hitchens book as mentioned above, or failing that the much shorter 'letter to a christian nation' by Sam Harris. Faith should never be fancied over reason, but since 9/11 there has been a lot of headway to be had by the Jewish and Christian evangelists looking to push through their own agendas. Be very afraid. I am. |
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| Deleted User | 27th December 2007 - 02:45 PM Post #30 |
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Deleted User
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It's the way he tells em! Where are you off to - Afghanistan to further your studies? You lot who like to blame Christianity, Judaism and the Daily Mail for the problems we have never cease to amaze me. Do you believe (as many British Muslims do) that 7/7 was a Government plot to turn people against Islam? Just to balance your reading check out the brilliant Melanie Phillips' Londonistan - How Britain is creating a terror state within. |
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9:22 PM Nov 25
